I wouldn’t waste time with the vaccine. The manufacturers claim that it gives you extra time to get to the vet. Join the National Snakebites Support group on Facebook to learn the truth of why the vaccine isn’t recommended. In short, there isn’t any scientific evidence to back up the claims made by the manufacturer.
I’ve had two dogs bitten by rattlesnakes. Bites are largely survivable, even without antivenin. I know how terrifying it is when your dog is bitten.
Rattlesnake avoidance training is absolutely the way to go, IMO. The trainer you use makes all the difference. The trick is finding a company that treats both the dogs and the snakes they use humanely and ethically. I know of a great company that comes to NM yearly.
I have 5 dogs. All 5 have had training and re-tests years later. I’m happy to report that all of my dogs remembered their initial training and passed with flying colors. And yes, I have a couple of dogs that qualify as nervous. Again, the quality of the trainer makes a difference. There’s only one company I would trust for this type of training. They were patient and gentle with all of our dogs, including the nervous/anxious ones. I even have some of their trainings on video.
Dogs don’t learn their lesson after being bitten by a snake. The best defense is teaching them how to avoid venomous snakes.
Thanks for the informative post. I had no idea there was a rattlesnake venom vaccine. I'm fascinated that's even possible. Our dog has a really strong prey drive (or play drive, when it's other dogs). I've been worried about rattlesnake run-ins (and coyote run-ins, due to the latter) since we moved here.
You mentioned rattlesnake aversion training, which we did when we first moved here. I don't know if the training "took." Our dog was traumatized by even a mild shock and wouldn't go near the training area after the first mild zap. Conversely, there was another dog there that was deemed untrainable because it didn't respond to the shocks at the highest level.
It's been five years since we did it, we haven't seen a snake and/or he's avoided them. so I've been unsure what would happen if we actually encountered one. As I don't think putting him through the training again makes sense, and being out on the trails sniffing at every bush is one of his favorite things in the world, it's helpful to read this advice and have a plan in case he does try to make the wrong kind of friend.
We've had several coyote run-ins so I can tell you all about that too, if you want. My dog and I have both been attacked several times. My main advice is: carry an air horn. It has made a big difference.
Your dog's reaction to the aversion training is exactly what made me want to avoid it (wait, is that aversion-aversion training?), and I don't think it would have helped in this case because the rattler did not warn Ziggy. I happened to be recording myself making a voice-memo at the time so I went back and listened: there was no warning rattle. The rattle came after the bite. However, apparently snakes do have a distinct smell and of course shape, which might help your pup if the training used real snakes.
I have lived in NM my entire life and hiked with dogs my entire life and this is the first time it's happened to me. My previous doggo and I ran into rattlesnakes all the time in Albuquerque but I guess we got lucky: they always rattled first! And without any aversion training, she was scared and jumped clear.
The aversion training we did was entirely smell-based. It started in stages, first with a shed snakeskin, then an area where the snake had been previously, and finally the live, devenomed snake itself. I think that's how it went. My memory is fuzzy since we didn't participate much past phase 1. So maybe our dog has been avoiding snakes this whole time?
What's kind of funny about the coyotes is I often see them and he doesn't. This has happened multiple times. He always knows when another dog is nearby, from the sounds of collars and people, I'm guessing. But the coyotes are stealthy. Last week we ran into one on the street as we came out of a park. I backed up the way we had come and it seemed like the coyote started to follow us or was coming back that direction after realizing daylight on the street was not the best idea. I moseyed on and my dog never even knew it was there. I do like the airhorn idea, though remembering to take it would probably be the challenge. Could be useful for the occasional stray/off-leash dog, too.
Wow! Thank you for this very informative post. I am so sorry that Ziggy and you had to go through this. I am also not going to get Darwin any more rattlesnake vaccines in the near future. I think there may be a vaccine on the horizon that is more efficacious. Scientists are studying a man who has been letting various pit vipers bite him for years in the interest of "research" even though it seems quite crazy, the result is his blood may hold a secret to saving thousands of lives a year eventually. This was just reported by the BBC about a week ago and it is an American man.... I just sent you a link.
I'm really glad to hear that Mosaic is the place to go. Emergency vet care has been a real issue in New Mexico, but especially in Santa Fe over the last few years.
Glad Ziggy and you are OK. It is tough keeping it all together at a time like that.
Thank you for the post. I didn't even realize that we once again have a 24/7/365 emergency vet clinic in Santa Fe. The one I used when our last dog went into crisis shut down, and there was a lot of grumbling that we didn't have one. The new one ain't too far from where the old one was, off of Rodeo down at the south end of town.
The biggest rattler I ever saw was down at Bandelier curled up in a half buried Public Works Administration vehicle. A bunch of other people on the tour were crowding around the car looking for the noise. I told them they should probably keep their distance because the noise was coming from a rattlesnake big enough to eat them. Almost ran over a smaller one at La Tierra Trails. Gotta watch out.
Curious. Was he leashed? I learned long ago to never walk my dogs off leash. Of course, this is no guarantee, especially in El Norte. I’ve had my little guys pull out of their collars and take off. Hoping the best for Ziggy ‘cuz I kinda love him 💕
Aww thanks, I will pass on the sentiment to him! :) He is very lovable.
He was off leash - I considered mentioning this but he was within leash distance of me so I don't think it really mattered in this case. I mostly keep him on leash unless I have a clear line of sight, but I like to let him stretch it out on occasion. (He generally sticks very close to me, typical cattle dog)
Thank you for sharing. We have three dogs, two of whom have been bitten. We always get them vaccinated. The vaccine is not a panacea, but I think it buys time, which can be important. Glad you are all ok!
Happy to share: It was much less than I expected: $1000 to get him stabilized at the first vet, and $1000 for the overnight at the emergency vet. They estimated $3000 for the overnight vet but refunded me some of my deposit $ because the care cost less than the deposit. (When does THAT ever happen?) For context, he is a Parvo survivor and that emergency was WAY more expensive.
I wouldn’t waste time with the vaccine. The manufacturers claim that it gives you extra time to get to the vet. Join the National Snakebites Support group on Facebook to learn the truth of why the vaccine isn’t recommended. In short, there isn’t any scientific evidence to back up the claims made by the manufacturer.
I’ve had two dogs bitten by rattlesnakes. Bites are largely survivable, even without antivenin. I know how terrifying it is when your dog is bitten.
Rattlesnake avoidance training is absolutely the way to go, IMO. The trainer you use makes all the difference. The trick is finding a company that treats both the dogs and the snakes they use humanely and ethically. I know of a great company that comes to NM yearly.
I have 5 dogs. All 5 have had training and re-tests years later. I’m happy to report that all of my dogs remembered their initial training and passed with flying colors. And yes, I have a couple of dogs that qualify as nervous. Again, the quality of the trainer makes a difference. There’s only one company I would trust for this type of training. They were patient and gentle with all of our dogs, including the nervous/anxious ones. I even have some of their trainings on video.
Dogs don’t learn their lesson after being bitten by a snake. The best defense is teaching them how to avoid venomous snakes.
Thanks for the informative post. I had no idea there was a rattlesnake venom vaccine. I'm fascinated that's even possible. Our dog has a really strong prey drive (or play drive, when it's other dogs). I've been worried about rattlesnake run-ins (and coyote run-ins, due to the latter) since we moved here.
You mentioned rattlesnake aversion training, which we did when we first moved here. I don't know if the training "took." Our dog was traumatized by even a mild shock and wouldn't go near the training area after the first mild zap. Conversely, there was another dog there that was deemed untrainable because it didn't respond to the shocks at the highest level.
It's been five years since we did it, we haven't seen a snake and/or he's avoided them. so I've been unsure what would happen if we actually encountered one. As I don't think putting him through the training again makes sense, and being out on the trails sniffing at every bush is one of his favorite things in the world, it's helpful to read this advice and have a plan in case he does try to make the wrong kind of friend.
We've had several coyote run-ins so I can tell you all about that too, if you want. My dog and I have both been attacked several times. My main advice is: carry an air horn. It has made a big difference.
Your dog's reaction to the aversion training is exactly what made me want to avoid it (wait, is that aversion-aversion training?), and I don't think it would have helped in this case because the rattler did not warn Ziggy. I happened to be recording myself making a voice-memo at the time so I went back and listened: there was no warning rattle. The rattle came after the bite. However, apparently snakes do have a distinct smell and of course shape, which might help your pup if the training used real snakes.
I have lived in NM my entire life and hiked with dogs my entire life and this is the first time it's happened to me. My previous doggo and I ran into rattlesnakes all the time in Albuquerque but I guess we got lucky: they always rattled first! And without any aversion training, she was scared and jumped clear.
The aversion training we did was entirely smell-based. It started in stages, first with a shed snakeskin, then an area where the snake had been previously, and finally the live, devenomed snake itself. I think that's how it went. My memory is fuzzy since we didn't participate much past phase 1. So maybe our dog has been avoiding snakes this whole time?
What's kind of funny about the coyotes is I often see them and he doesn't. This has happened multiple times. He always knows when another dog is nearby, from the sounds of collars and people, I'm guessing. But the coyotes are stealthy. Last week we ran into one on the street as we came out of a park. I backed up the way we had come and it seemed like the coyote started to follow us or was coming back that direction after realizing daylight on the street was not the best idea. I moseyed on and my dog never even knew it was there. I do like the airhorn idea, though remembering to take it would probably be the challenge. Could be useful for the occasional stray/off-leash dog, too.
Wow! Thank you for this very informative post. I am so sorry that Ziggy and you had to go through this. I am also not going to get Darwin any more rattlesnake vaccines in the near future. I think there may be a vaccine on the horizon that is more efficacious. Scientists are studying a man who has been letting various pit vipers bite him for years in the interest of "research" even though it seems quite crazy, the result is his blood may hold a secret to saving thousands of lives a year eventually. This was just reported by the BBC about a week ago and it is an American man.... I just sent you a link.
Glad your doggo is okay. Scary! And great advice.
I'm really glad to hear that Mosaic is the place to go. Emergency vet care has been a real issue in New Mexico, but especially in Santa Fe over the last few years.
Glad Ziggy and you are OK. It is tough keeping it all together at a time like that.
Thank you for the post. I didn't even realize that we once again have a 24/7/365 emergency vet clinic in Santa Fe. The one I used when our last dog went into crisis shut down, and there was a lot of grumbling that we didn't have one. The new one ain't too far from where the old one was, off of Rodeo down at the south end of town.
The biggest rattler I ever saw was down at Bandelier curled up in a half buried Public Works Administration vehicle. A bunch of other people on the tour were crowding around the car looking for the noise. I told them they should probably keep their distance because the noise was coming from a rattlesnake big enough to eat them. Almost ran over a smaller one at La Tierra Trails. Gotta watch out.
Curious. Was he leashed? I learned long ago to never walk my dogs off leash. Of course, this is no guarantee, especially in El Norte. I’ve had my little guys pull out of their collars and take off. Hoping the best for Ziggy ‘cuz I kinda love him 💕
Aww thanks, I will pass on the sentiment to him! :) He is very lovable.
He was off leash - I considered mentioning this but he was within leash distance of me so I don't think it really mattered in this case. I mostly keep him on leash unless I have a clear line of sight, but I like to let him stretch it out on occasion. (He generally sticks very close to me, typical cattle dog)
Thank you for sharing. We have three dogs, two of whom have been bitten. We always get them vaccinated. The vaccine is not a panacea, but I think it buys time, which can be important. Glad you are all ok!
So glad your pupper made it through. Do I mind sharing the price tag on this?
Happy to share: It was much less than I expected: $1000 to get him stabilized at the first vet, and $1000 for the overnight at the emergency vet. They estimated $3000 for the overnight vet but refunded me some of my deposit $ because the care cost less than the deposit. (When does THAT ever happen?) For context, he is a Parvo survivor and that emergency was WAY more expensive.
Thank you!!! It always nice to have an idea.
Thank you so much for sharing this!
Thank you for sharing this. What a great story and a way others can learn from your experience. Glad the ending turned happy for everyone.